Episode 3: Success on Your Own Terms with Lisette Xavier

A lot of women grow up feeling like they have to choose between career or family, ambition or balance, success or happiness. But for Lisette Xavier, motherhood completely changed the way she sees all of it.

In this episode, the singer, TV host, and mom opens up about becoming a parent at a young age and how it pushed her to build a life that actually feels good to live, not just one that looks successful from the outside. We talk about the pressure of trying to “do it all,” the guilt that can come with working motherhood, and the constant process of figuring out what really matters in each season of life.

Lisette shares what it looks like to balance a demanding creative career while staying grounded in her role as a mom, and why protecting her peace, her boundaries, and her support system has become so important.

We get into:

•  The reality of balancing motherhood with a busy career 
•  Why life and career priorities naturally shift in different seasons 
•  The importance of having a small but strong support system 
•  Letting go of the pressure to do everything perfectly 
•  Protecting your mental and emotional health as a creative parent 
•  Staying connected to your “why” when life feels overwhelming 

Throughout the conversation, Lisette challenges the idea that success has to come at the expense of happiness or family life. Instead, she talks about building a life that reflects your values, even if it looks different from what people expect.

This episode is for anyone who’s ever felt stretched thin, overwhelmed, or unsure if balance is even possible. It’s an honest reminder that fulfillment doesn’t have to mean doing everything perfectly. It can simply mean building a life that feels authentic to you.

Thanks for being part of this conversation. Mother Makes Music is all about honesty, connection, and reminding each other that we’re not doing this alone. If this episode spoke to you, we’d love for you to share it and keep the conversation going.

Follow along on Instagram and TikTok @mothermakesmusic

Mother Makes Music is hosted by Megan McKay
Podcast Artwork by Emily Pond
Podcast Theme by Matty McKay
Funding generously provided by Calgary Arts Development

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Welcome to the Mother Makes Music Podcast. My name is Megan McKay. I'm your host, and I'm so glad you're here. Today's conversation is with Lisette Xavier. Lisette is interesting because she is a creative person who does a little bit of everything. She's a singer-songwriter, she's a keyboard player, she hosts a TV show, she hosts events across the country. She talks about how her thing is that she really likes to connect with people. This conversation was so interesting to me as somebody who is actively trying to be more intentional about my life and my choices. Talking to Lissette, you really come to understand that she is somebody who has poured into herself and her children and her career and built this life that she loves from the ground up. And I think she's really done it her own way in a way that feels right for her. And I think an important part of any conversation about motherhood is understanding that what works for you might not work for me, might not work for somebody else. But we're all just trying to build a life that we love. And talking to Lisette really affirmed for me that there is so many ways to be a great mother, to be a happy family, to raise happy children. I really enjoyed getting to talk to Lisette and getting to know her and hearing a bit more about her story. And I hope you enjoy this conversation with Lisette Xavier.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

Hi, Lisette. Hi. Thank you for joining us today. I'm so excited to have you.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

Yeah, I think this is gonna be fun because our paths cross like at events very randomly over the years. So this is like our first like sit-down conversation, which is exciting. Yes, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

So before I start asking you questions about being a mom, I just wanted to talk about the before a little bit. So, what was your path into the music industry? Did that happen before you had kids?

SPEAKER_03 2:11

Not really. I'm like, that's the same story for me. I had my kids very young, very, very young. And so actually, when I got pregnant with my son, I had like a normal job. And I remember having a very clear like thought of like, what do I want for this kid? I was having him, you know, before I might have planned to have kids. And so it was this lovely surprise. And I remember thinking, like, man, I just hope he's happy. Like, I hope that this kid just loves their life. And then my next immediate thought was, I do not love my life. And I'm like, oh, like monkey see, monkey do, right? And so he was actually the catalyst of me prioritizing doing the thing I loved, which was connecting with people and moving into like the entertainment space. And at the beginning, the only way I saw into that world was through music.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

How would you describe your role in the music industry now? Um fluid.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

I think for my entire career, I never identified as a musician. And it was this funny conversation I would have with friends because they were all musicians. And they just, it's a different way of looking at things. It's just who they are inherently, you know, into their core and it's all they want to do. And for me, music was a medium. And I loved music. I was put into piano lessons when I was five. So I've always loved music. I was good at it, played saxophones, singing, you know, but the magic for me was in connecting with people. And so it took me a long time to figure out that that can look so many different ways. So I'm really fortunate that I'm still very much in the Calgary music scene. And I get to participate in things like Rock the Nation, you know, at the National Music Center. And, you know, I've performed with the Calgary Philharmonic Orchestra and it's very much still a big part of my life. I'm on the board for nonprofits that help gender diverse use. And it's something that will always be a part of my life, but it's not the only part of my life. You know, I get to connect with people in so many different ways now. And so I think for me, I've found that like sweet spot where for me, I'm just like, if I'm connecting with people, if I'm on a stage, I'm happy. And I'm just lucky that I get to do that in lots of different ways. Cause you do a fair bit of hosting and stuff as well, right? Yeah. So I mean, we're kind of like jumping all over the place, but I accidentally got a TV show. And so once I got my TV show, that kind of changed the trajectory of a lot of the opportunities that were coming. And so now, yeah, I mean, I was in Vancouver hosting like the Junior Juno's. I was just in Toronto a few days ago hosting a red carpet at this incredible film premiere. I've hosted the YYC Music Awards for three years in a row now. And someone kind of recently asked me, they're like, What's your favorite? Like, is it TV? Is it hosting? Is it music? And it it feels like a, what do you call it? Like a cop-out, but it's not. I'm like, if I'm if I'm just like performing or if I'm just getting to connect with people, like I'm happy. Like that is, that's peak. So they're all great.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

Right. It's like if somebody asks who your favorite kid is. Like you don't have one. They're different, but you don't have a favorite. Or maybe you don't. I actually do, depending on the day.

SPEAKER_03 5:12

And my kids know this. So like when my son's being difficult, my daughter's like, am I your favorite? I'm like, yes, you are. And then when my daughter's having a bad day, my son's like, Am I your favorite? I'm like, yes, you are. So I'm like, depends on the day, you know?

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Love it. I mean, honesty, that's amazing. So it sounds like you didn't maybe consider timing when you got pregnant. That was sort of just something that happened. Did you always picture motherhood being a part of your life journey?

SPEAKER_03 5:36

I mean, the real real is that like I almost beat teen pregnancy. So when we're saying younger, we mean younger. I was very, very young. And I think I thought it might be one day. Um and then and it happened. And I'm so glad it did. And it's, I think it changed the trajectory of a lot of things. So my view on it or my belief is that I'm living the life I was going to be living. It just took me 10 years longer to get here, right? I'm just like, we just pivoted. It was a little bit of a delay, but like, it's almost when you're on a road trip and you're like, okay, we could make a straight drive from here to here, or we could like stop here because that's really cool. And then it's just it's only 30 minutes to this cool thing. And so like I got to experience a bunch of other really unexpected, wonderful things on my way to the destination. I got here anyways. And I'm, yeah, I think that it makes me better in all of the work that I get to do now. So I wouldn't, I wouldn't change it. But I, yeah, it's hard to know how it would have played out otherwise.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

I know it was a while ago now. Can you remember your first postpartum experience? How would you describe it?

SPEAKER_03 6:38

So, like with my son, it was, it was lovely. It was really, really lovely. I think I was lucky in that I, like I said, so my I used my mat leave with my son to remap out my life. And so I was able to take my time and figure out what I wanted to do. And I knew I wanted to like spend as much time with him as possible. And it was just very probably because I didn't have like this life that I had to like jump back into. Like I was just kind of like making it. It felt like a very slow season. And it was really, really nice. And then like when I look back, I'm like, I was just the baby with a baby. So we were just kind of like learning together. And you know, when I think back to like that Matt Leave, like my son and I were really busy. Like every day he and I were, you know, at the library or we were going to the park or we were going to the zoo. Like we were just, we were always out just exploring. And it was just a lot of quality, quality time, he and I. And it was just a very, it was a slow season. And it was a really, it was a good, it was a good season. I think I was lucky in that way.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Was it different with your daughter?

SPEAKER_03 7:39

Yeah, because by then I had a four and a half year old or five-year-old. Yeah. Like my son was just starting kindergarten. So that was nice in that, like, I also got to spend a lot of quality time with her. But then obviously there was the the chaos before and after school. But I I was really happy that it was spaced that way because I still got my days with her. And then, of course, by then I was knee deep into being a singer-songwriter. So my nights also looked a lot different and it was a lot more tiring because I would be up at like six or seven with my kids and I would be primary kicker, like caregiver all day. And then, you know, spending time with my daughter, trying to get in that quality time, picking up my friends from school, doing all of those things. But then once they were in bed, eight, nine, I was staying up to like early hours in the morning, working on whatever had to get done. So, you know, two young kids, when you're very young, we, you know, there was not a lot of money, there was not a lot of resources. So if I wanted to do something, I had to learn how to do it. I couldn't hire someone. So it was a very intense season of being chronically fatigued because I was just doing so much and then staying up later to like try and get it done. And then taking a nap before I got up and did it all again.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Because I guess there was no maternity leave. Like by then you were self-employed, you were not receiving maternity leave benefits, or were you?

SPEAKER_03 8:55

So actually, with my daughter, I went back to work because we we had my daughter was planned. And so I wanted to cap on that. And so my last real job was right when I got pregnant with my daughter. And I knew that was gonna be like my last real job. And but it was kind of the same thing. So I treated my Mat Leave with my daughter like there was nothing to go back to because I knew there wouldn't be. And then it was, yeah, I would say like no Mat Leave in the sense that that became my normal.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

That's good planning. You're like, I'm gonna get my 600 hours, and then I am it was very type A Capricorn of me.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

I was like, listen, if this is happening, I'm gonna go get a corporate job. We're gonna, we're gonna max that out, and we're gonna have a year. And then for me, it was like a year of prep and like um practice almost, like to just to see if it would work. And so anything that came in from the MATLAB just like went away. I'm like, don't touch it, don't need it. Can I sustain my life this way?

SPEAKER_01 9:46

And yeah, it went well. Here we are. I guess there wasn't a before with the kids. Was there a shift when you went from one to two that you were sort of like, well, I'm gonna have to navigate things a little differently now?

SPEAKER_03 9:59

I think that the shift was really gradual for me just because the the spacing was bigger. And then between my son and my daughter, like my son was the catalyst of like, I'm going to make sure I have things in my life that bring me joy. And then it very quickly became how do I make this my life? And so I think the real struggle, obstacle, hard season was literally just what I described in like trying to make it sustainable. Cause it didn't feel sustainable for many years. There was a lot of really hard seasons of like, this is this is too much. This is how do I I'm tired. I don't want to anymore. But I think that there was just like this knowing that like giving up and not following through on something I knew I could do would feel so much worse than how I was feeling at the time. So even at like my most tired and my most fatigued and my most defeated, I was like, this is still better than giving up. So I guess we're in it.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

Can you remember, did you have any sort of strategies for how you balanced the emotional demands of motherhood and the emotional demands of being an artist? Like that's a very personal putting yourself out there sort of thing. How did you balance those two?

SPEAKER_03 11:06

Well, I would say the honest answer is not well. It's easy for me to look back now, the person I am today, and have so much empathy for who I was then, because I can't stress enough how young I was. And I had no awareness of um neurodivergencies. Now now I know I have ADHD and I know I get really overwhelmed and I get overstimulated. And for me, that can look like irritability. And so I think for a long time it was just trying to like move through different waves of like overwhelm and guilt from my overwhelm and wanting to be this different version of myself because the version I was didn't feel authentic. And also being in an environment that kind of perpetuated, you know, this really unhealthy cycle. And so it's a hard thing to look back on. Like sometimes I look back, I'm like, I don't know how I did it. Like I don't, I don't, I don't know how I pushed through. I don't know how I didn't. I mean, I guess I did cry myself to sleep quite a bit. But then to get up the next day and do it again, I think it's it's a weird thing as you, as you age or as you evolve as a person, and then you can look back with a different lens. It feels like looking at a different person. And I think if anything, I'm just like, I'm so grateful to that version of me because like she did the hard work. And I think this all the time. Like I'm living a life now that is so beautiful and abundant and just fantastical. And I don't know that I earned it because a very different version of me earned it. You know, the one that was going through all of the hard and was not handling it perfectly. I was, you know, I was just a baby with some babies, you know, but I did my best and I didn't give up. And so I'm just grateful for that. But if you ask me how, I still don't know. I don't know. I'm grateful, I'm thankful, but what would you say your relationship with mom guilt is now? It's a it's a really convincing liar. Like my daughter, you know, navigated anxiety, especially during COVID. And the thing that we did really early on, I was like, let's name it. Let's name this anxiety. Oh, and I forget. She gave it a very silly name, like dum dum or something. You know, just kind of like explaining. I'm like, this is a voice that it'll be the most believable lie that you ever hear. You're gonna hear this voice and you're gonna hear this narrative, and it will feel like truth, and it's not true. And I think now, you know, when I have those moments of that mom guilt, I'm like, yeah, like I'm able to take a step back from it and be like, yeah, not my truth though. And I think part of that is because I'm so locked into my why now. And so even now I make decisions that my kids probably don't love. I just went to Toronto without them as one example. They were like, we want to come. I'm like, this is a short trip. It doesn't make sense. I'm gonna lose money if I bring you. Are you kidding? Two teenagers, they are so hungry all the time. I make decisions that I know they won't agree with. I know other people might not agree with. But I'm like, what? But what's my why? And I'm like, well, I I believe that everyone should live a life that brings them joy. Like if you're not hurting anyone, do the thing you love. And I've been given this gift that I get to now. So I'm like, no. I'm like, I'm building, I'm building a life that allows me to give my kids a great life and that hopefully inspires them so that when something comes up in their life, they're like, actually, I'm gonna do the scary thing. Because like that's what you do. You do the scary thing you want to do, even if it's scary. And so for me, it's it's a lot easier now. Whereas before, I was like, what am I doing? Ah, like everyone's telling me I should be over here, but I'm over here. And so the the guilt feels a lot more real because I just didn't, I didn't have a clear vision. And then, you know, as you get there and you and you have that clarity, it it's a lot easier to say, oh, like, yeah, I hear you. I hear this guilt, I hear these voices, but like you don't see it. That's a you issue.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Do you ever feel like you have to downplay your role as a mother? Are you ever in a situation where you feel like it's maybe not cool to talk about your kids or, you know, talk about, oh, I gotta get home to the kids catching the first flight? Do you ever feel like that? Or are you just 100% comfortable being a mother all the time?

SPEAKER_03 15:14

Both. I think that I'm really good at reading the room. I've definitely been in rooms where I knew it wouldn't help me. And I intentionally left out that I had children and I got the opportunities and realized very quickly that I probably wouldn't have gotten it if they had known I had kids. So I think that that's still a world we live in. Some of the bigger roles that I've gotten, I don't think I would have gotten if they knew I had children. But obviously I was able to execute and do my job really, really well, regardless. It, you know, it's just one of those things where you trust your intuition and you let it play out. And then you show them that it can be done. And then hopefully, you know, the next time someone's in a room, that feeling won't be there because those prejudices won't be there. And then there's been other times when there's no apology. So I do think that we do still live in a world where there is certainly a shift in conversation. You see it a lot more even in just like regular media. You see women that are pregnant on the red carpet, you see people really embracing motherhood in a way we just didn't see, you know, when we were growing up, women disappeared and then just showed up with the same body, but there were children at home. But yeah, I think that unfortunately, there's there's definitely been situations where I'm like, yeah, there's no space for this.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

How would you describe your village?

SPEAKER_03 16:24

Tiny and fierce. I am probably the most protective about who is in my inner circle. It is the thing that I am the most proactive on, I think, probably in my life is just who is in my inner circle, who has access to me, who has access to my children. I I protect it fiercely. I curate it neurotically. And so what's happened is I have this very, very small group of people I would trust with my life. And I spend a lot of a lot of time, a lot of years in situations where that wasn't the case. You know, you're around obligatory relationships or, you know, just like default expectations of of trying to meet, like I'm a people pleaser, right? It makes me good at my job. It also makes me have poor boundaries. And so I've lived that life where I didn't protect my circle and I can feel the difference. I think the greatest gift anyone can give themselves is making sure that you are surrounded by people who want to see you win. I think there's this saying, and it was talking about like, look who's in your corner when things are hard. And I actually, in my experience, it's the opposite. People love to be helpful, you know, especially people that maybe want to see you come down a couple pegs. You know, those people are gonna step in and be like, oh my God, if you need anything, like, you know, I'm here for you. But when you're winning, that's look, look around then, right? When you're killing it and you're achieving and you're, you know, you're hitting those milestones and you're exceeding those milestones. Look at who's beside you being like, okay, go more. Yes, yes, you know, my circle's disproportionately queer. So it's a lot of yes, yeah. So like for me, that's who, that's who's around my circle now, you know, and it's not a big group and it's great. It's just a small group of people who would do anything to see me win. A lot of them tell me that I'm their retirement plan. So it's a lot of biased interest as well. No pressure.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

No, none. How do you handle the late nights and the traveling and managing all of that?

SPEAKER_03 18:26

I think that this becomes like really looking at the pros and cons of things, you know, like everything is a risk-reward kind of scenario. I talked about how having kids really young, the biggest challenge was like it delayed everything, right? So it's like still doing all the things, just took a couple fun detours, great. But one of the benefits now is that I get to be at this level or doing these things, like you said, like a lot of traveling with teenagers. And that's so much easier to navigate, I think, than it would have been being a single mom with very young children. I again, like, I'm like, I don't know how I would navigate that. Like I would have to have a bigger circle, I would have to still have relationships with people that I, you know, was weren't actually serving me just to have more support or, you know, be a little bit more flexible in what I'm willing to spend on support, childcare, and whatever that looked like. Whereas I have older children now and it's so much easier. You know, last weekend, as an example, I flew out. It overlapped with two days that I had my kids. And so for my daughter, it was easy, like planned a sleepover, right? So like she's old enough to have close friends that, you know, she's like second family. Went there straight after school. Same thing with my son, just old enough to like coordinate things, but they can also get there on their own. And, you know, sometimes the community looks like that. It's not just a community of people that love me, it's the community of people that love my children and are able to step in. And so we found ways to make it a lot more fun. So now it's like, oh, I'm gone for the weekend. And my daughter's like, this is who I want to have a sleepover with. And I'm like, amazing. Let's set it up.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Do you ever bring them? Like if you're shooting your TV show in Toronto, how long are you typically in Toronto for?

SPEAKER_03 20:04

Yeah. So I'll be out there for a few months, like two to three months. And absolutely I'll bring them out. So I'll come out for a few weekends. Usually I'll have contracts in Calgary, so I'll be back anyways, too. And then I'll fly them out for a few weeks. So it's it's very fun. I bring them when I can, but they want to come to all of it and they can't. But like I'm in Ottawa this summer coming up, and I've already told them and I was like, they've never been to Ottawa. We can take a trip to Montreal. I'm like, it'll be great. So they can come to that one. But they love Toronto because it's like second home now. So they're like, Can we also go to Toronto?

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Do you have any mentors or peers that have kind of helped you walk the path of balancing motherhood in your career? Or do you feel like you're sort of figuring this out by yourself as you go?

SPEAKER_03 20:43

Well, I mean, I think for a long, long time I did feel very alone. It was tricky. Cause even if I think of like the moms I know now, their kids are all younger, right? So like I was navigating kids when everyone else didn't have kids, and then they started having, you know, so it was just like a little staggered. So there was a long time where it felt alone, but there have always been people that were so supportive, even if they weren't mothers. And I think that that's like the beauty of, I don't know, is that the community love, nurturing? I've had those mother figures in my life that were like, you can do the impossible thing. So it's, I guess, like a little bit of both. And some of the most supportive people in my life were never actually mothers. They were just that motherly figure. And I don't know, it's just like those people that want to see you win. Those are good people.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

I guess then, do you feel maybe the opposite? Like, do you have people that you work with that kind of come to you and be like, I am new to motherhood. How did you manage all of this?

SPEAKER_03 21:45

Yeah, I guess I do. And the first thing I say is like, I wouldn't take my advice. Like, I would take no one's advice. I think that's like the greatest, that's the greatest gift. Do there's a few things that I tell new parents. And I'm like, first of all, everyone. Everyone's doing their best, and all you can do is your best, and your best is allowed to change. My friend just had a baby, and she was adamantly against co-sleeping. And she's like, This baby just won't stop crying. She's very different from my first child. And like we're we've been sleeping in the same bed, and I don't love that. And I just looked at her and I was like, man, good for you. Like you're surviving. You don't have to co-sleep forever if you don't want to. This is a hard season. You just get through the season. Whatever you need to get through the season, you get through it. Like that's literally it. Parenting is it's so fluid. And I felt like with my kids, I would struggle and then I'd figure it out just in time for them to change. And then it was all new rules. And I was like, what? No, okay. And then I would, you know, oh, okay, I figured it out just in time for them to change. So I think it's just move with grace and forgiveness. You know, like you might not be at your best, but if you're giving, like there's that, I love a saying. There's this story of like, you know, if a man with a million dollars gives you $10, doesn't mean the same as if a man with $10 gives you $10. You know, like if all you have is 10% and you're giving 10%, you're giving 100%. And you're gonna have more capacity at different periods in your life. And it's really hard to have that kindness for yourself. But I think if there's like one thing I would change about how I navigated motherhood, it would be that. I just I wish I was kinder to myself. Because I look back now with kindness and with empathy and with so much gratitude. But at the time, no one was meaner to me than me, you know, and I hate that. So yeah, I hope, I hope people just move with kindness.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

I feel like kindness for yourself as a new mom is so challenging because the stakes for everything feel so high. Because I can remember having the same thought. Like my son would not sleep. But then you go on Instagram and there's, you know, accounts telling you that if you co-sleep, they're never gonna go to college because they'll have to sleep in your bed for the rest of their life. The stakes for everything feel so high. And then when you look back, it's like, oh, that really wasn't that big of a deal.

SPEAKER_03 23:59

Yeah. And like perspective, like that's the tricky part of it. And maybe that's part of the importance of community. I didn't have someone to tell me that. I didn't, I didn't have that support system to kind of like carry me gently through that season. And so I think that that's a really beautiful thing now. And and part of that is being older, right? Like now, my my my friends are having babies now. And I'm like, this makes sense. And so being able to just like hold them in this season and be like, yeah, this is hard. We don't have to do anything. Let me bring you snacks and you nap or shower or whatever you want to do. Do nothing, go binge watch a show. I've got this for an hour, go do you. And it's yeah, it's tricky. And I think that it just changes, right? Like my son is looking at universities in a couple of years, and I I caught myself recently feeling like if he doesn't do well in high school, that's my failure. Now, as they become people, their wins feel like their wins, their failures feel like my failures. And so it's a different season of that. But you know, it was a very quick check-in and like sitting with a friend, and they were like, hey, even if your kids flunked out of high school, which like is not a concern, but like, even if like that's not the end of the world. You know, like that's that's just a lesson that that they get to learn from. And so just being like, that's right. So maybe it doesn't change, it just shifts.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Can you think of a time where it felt like the two elements of your life were just perfectly aligned? Like you were crushing it at motherhood, you were crushing it at your career.

SPEAKER_03 25:24

Honestly, probably now. And that, even then, it's like, not really. The answer is no. I never feel like I'm crushing it at both. But if I were to look at it objectively, um, I would say right now, you know, like my work is great. And I feel like my cup is very full. And what I'm able to give back, not just like professionally, but within my community, what I'm pouring into the world as a person feels very, very fulfilling. And then at the same time, I have two kids that are pretty happy, you know, and they're doing great things on their own. And I'm watching them kind of discover who they want to be and how they want to move through the world and what's important to them. And I have the capacity to support them when they need support and to step back when they want me to not be involved at all. And I think that it's it's still hard. I still cry. But I think that the the season of life that I'm in right now is the most peaceful and the most fulfilling that I've had to date. So it's yeah, it's been really, if not also still hard.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Of course. Sounds like you've been very intentional about setting boundaries and protecting your peace. So it's kind of cool for you to be in a stage of life where you get to reap the benefits of the work that you have done.

SPEAKER_03 26:38

Yeah, like it didn't happen by accident. You know, my life kind of fell apart two and a half years ago. You know, everything I thought that was gonna happen did not, and it all kind of crumbled. And that's a that's a scary, hard thing. And when I was kind of at the point where I'm like, okay, well, I have to rebuild this life. It was the first time that I felt like I was on offense in my life. You know, like one thing I said in therapy once was, I'm living the dream, it just wasn't mine, you know, and I wasn't prioritizing myself and I wasn't feeling supported. And I just, I wasn't, I wasn't living a life that felt authentic, which is really, really important to me just as a person. Um, anyone who's worked with me or who knows me personally, like that's just number one. I'm like, if we're not, if we're not being real, what is the point? I'm not interested. So I think getting to experience your life crumbling also gives you the opportunity to be really intentional about how you rebuild it because it's gonna take effort no matter what. And then I went through a season of literally evaluating every single part of my life and deciding if it still was serving me. So I'm like, do I do this because I've always done this, because it's expected of me, because I want to do this? Is this coming from a place of conviction or condemnation? Am I inspired by this or am I guilty if I don't do this? And it was a very exhausting time. There was, you know, a year of a lot of discomfort and a lot of of uncertainty and a lot of trial and error to get to this point today where I'm like, oh yeah, like I have, you know, exactly what you said. I have curated this life. I have intentionally built this life. And it's very, I don't know, like what the right word is. I don't know. I guess it's just it just makes me happy, you know, to be like, oh yeah, like it was worth it. Thank goodness.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

It must be so interesting to look back like two and a half years ago, and you probably couldn't even picture where you are now and what would make you happy now. And secretly what a gift that you were given to be able to be able to live this life that makes you so happy. But it's weird. Like I'm sure it didn't feel that way when it happened.

SPEAKER_03 28:54

It did not. It did not have that's a good guess. Yeah. And the funniest part of it, if I'm honest, is the fact that I knew exactly what would make me happy. Like I was, it was more like, oh, I was right. It's just I was told for so long it wouldn't. And it's little silly things. Like, I always loved lofts downtown. You know, like you watch the movie and you see the loft and you're like, oh, it's so cool. I'm like, I would love to live in a loft. And everyone's just like, you would hate living downtown. It's so busy, blah, blah, blah. Reasons A to Z of why people don't live downtown. Now you have kids, there's no space, you know, list goes on. I now live in a loft downtown. I love it. I love it so much. It brings me joy every day. I will never not live in a loft downtown. I'll get a bigger loft, hopefully, one day, because my kids are, you know, there's a struggle with space, I admit. There's a compromise, but I love it. And so I think a lot of the discovery and like the navigating was almost unlearning all of the lies I had believed about myself, about the world, about how I should be, what I should want, and realizing that, like, oh, I get to write the rules of the life I live. I have a couple of quick fire questions for you.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

I love it. What is the most challenging time for you to take a work haul?

SPEAKER_03 30:08

Evenings. I hate an evening call. If it's after five, just don't. Yeah. It's really, really challenging, which is tricky when you're working with time people in different time zones. Yeah. But like as a mom, like still evenings, even like my weeks without my kids, like I still coach my daughter's basketball team. I'm still going to all of my son's basketball games. My evenings are chaos forever. So I hate, I hate an evening, anything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

I don't know if this would be easier because you have older children or harder because they probably don't go to bed. But what is your go-to after bedtime routine? Or I guess for you, maybe what is your go-to when it is not your parenting week? What's the one thing that you're like, the kids are gone. Here we go.

SPEAKER_03 30:47

Maybe mine is like the opposite. So, like, because I have kids that, like, yeah, they put themselves to bed. I'm of the belief, I'm like, you know what time you have to be up? You can't be difficult or a monster. Like, you have to learn how to navigate the world. Make good choices. I will happily at 9 p.m. go to them and be like, hey, I love you. Good night. Wake me if you need me. Don't need me. And I will put myself to sleep and be like, I'll see you tomorrow. Make good choices.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

This is the dream.

SPEAKER_03 31:09

Yeah, it's the greatest gift I give myself. Like, I don't, yeah, I need if I'm tired, I'm going to bed. And they'll, they almost always stay up later than me. But they know that the expectation is they're up when they have to be up. They don't get to be belligerent. They have to be functional humans. And it's really cool because when we first started this rule, you know, there was definitely a few nights where my one or two of my children, I won't name them, it was both of them, they struggled and were not functional people. And then they were on their own, like, I need to go to bed a little earlier tonight. I'm like, hmm, that's probably, that's probably a good assessment. But we forget, like as parents, our job is for them to not need us. Right. So we spend so much time, like, you know, you're pregnant and you're like so protective of just like keeping them alive. And then they're infants and you're literally the only thing keeping them safe. And you get to this point where it's like, the more I do that, the more I'm hurting you now. Because now my job is so you don't need me, you know? And that's what I tell them every time. I'm like, you have to clean the bathroom because your job is to be able to clean the bathroom one day.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

Yes, 100%. I'm with you. What is one household task you'd outsource permanently if money was no issue?

SPEAKER_03 32:15

Oh God, is it it's weird that I love cleaning? Definitely not laundry. I love laundry. Laundry is my favorite. Uh probably cleaning the walls. That's what it is. I hate like a deep clean when I like every six months when I like I'm such a yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

That is so specific.

SPEAKER_03 32:29

But I I like cleaning the walls is a pain. And like every two years, let's just paint it. But someone else can do it. I don't want to do it.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

What is one thing that you no longer apologize for?

SPEAKER_03 32:40

Other people's feelings. Yeah. I think I spend a lot of my life feeling responsible for other people's feelings. And I don't, I don't anymore. I know the role that like my actions might play, and I'll take accountability for that. But in relation to parenting, but definitely lots of other relationships, but like with parenting, I can think of times where like my daughter was very upset about something and past the point of being able to have a conversation because she's just in it. She's feeling all the big feelings. And I was like, listen, these are all so valid and these are all big, but these are yours. And I don't let people talk to me like this. That's my boundary. So take as much space as you need, feel all of your feelings. And when you, when you're ready to talk to me about it, I'm here and I'll I'll listen to everything you have to say. But this, what you're trying to make me carry, I'm like, no, thank you. No.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

What is a myth about working moms that you want to debunk?

SPEAKER_03 33:33

But we can do it all. We can't. And I and I think the biggest disservice is that we think we should be able to. I think that we have this illusion that it's like you should have be able to like upkeep your house and do all this and do all this and be here and be at the recitals and volunteer and you know, while maintaining, like you can't. You can't do it all. You have to, you have to pick and choose. And that's why like I always I've said seasons, like how many times during this podcast, but I life comes in seasons and you need to just figure out what's important in this one. Be like, listen, okay, I only have so much energy to give. I only have so much I can put out into the world. What does that look like this year, this month, this week? It's like, you know what? I will be doing no laundry. There's almost so much capacity. Yeah. So, like if you're going to Family Christmas and you usually make a thing, it's like maybe you're ordering a thing or you're having people over. It's like you hire someone to clean your house because you're just not going to. I think we can't do it all. We shouldn't expect ourselves to do it all. And man, how much peace would we all have if we didn't think we had to?

SPEAKER_01 34:28

I am with you. Okay, my very last question for you is where do you see yourself and your family in the next five years?

SPEAKER_03 34:36

Hope happy. That's always been my answer. Even I can remember my first job interview. And she was like, Where do you see yourself in five years? And I was like, I hope I'm happy. Cause I don't know. You know, like five years ago, I couldn't have imagined the life I live now. And five years before that, same thing. Like it's just, it's so unexpected. And I think that if my why and my reason stays true, you know, I can keep my eye on the prize. It's really just living a very peaceful, joyful life. And so I don't really care about all the details. I don't I don't know that I'm particular about what those pieces look like specifically, because I know that all the choices I make and all of the paths that I choose to move through are gonna be because I think that they're gonna bring me peace and joy. Yeah, we'll see. Gosh, five years. Check back in. I'll let you know where I'm at. Perfect. I'll be in a lost somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 35:33

Well, thank you so much for your time. It was such a pleasure talking with you. And I hope we chat again soon.

SPEAKER_03 35:37

Yeah. Thanks for doing this. What a what a great podcast. And it's nice to finally connect.